Post by jks on Dec 14, 2014 12:47:19 GMT -5
I was re-reading this and i hope no one takes anything I have said as negative or combative here. The original question was about the old 400 Whelen, and i was just pointing out some of the reasons the poor old brute never gained the popularity it deserved. The 400 Whelen itself is a great old round that took a beating because of the inconsistencies which have plagued the 405 Winchester right up to this very day. Couple that with the fact no two reamers were really alike in those days, and that every gunsmith wanted to put his own seal on a round, and the fact that handloaders were often very very unsophisticated and used some pretty sloppy equipment, and then figure that this round is on the extreme end of what can be safely done to an 06 case and it became sort of an inevitable failure!
To this day there is crap written about the 40 caliber rounds on the 06 case by guys who have never seen let alone shot one! And I know that old prejudice against the 400 Whelen and others named thus, are why guys chose to emphasize the .411 in the name of current wildcatts. To create an illusion of difference even where none really exists. ALL of these nominally 41 cal cartridges perform close enough to the same. The "biggest" of the bunch like the 411 Hawk, and others similar are maybe a tad faster, but sure heck not enough to matter. For me I want safety and reliability. I can assure you that tales of the case pushing forward under firing pin blow without firing are very real - Hell I have done that with the 35 Whelen! Once ANY of these 400 cases are fire formed, they will fire and perform with complete reliability as long as the shoulder is not pushed back.
I posted that pic above, I think that is either a 411 Hawk and an 06 or a 411 JKS (They are for all purposes the same) and an 06. I am tying to find a sample of the 411/350, and another wildcat I chambered once for a customer; the 416 PAB (I believe he told me that stood for perfect american belted- ) If you really think you are a wildcatter . . . then this is the sort of round that will test whether you have jumped all the way off the bridge or not! He used basic 06 brass (This was long enough ago that his brass was basic 06 from B.E.L.L) then he turned a relief groove and swaged on a belt. So in essence he now had a dead straight 240 Weatherby case. This was run through a FL die to impart a bit of taper with the inside finishing out to hold 416 bullets. This was back in the late 80's when the big 416 renaissance took place. You are really starting to get there in the wildcat arena with a round like this! BUT if you really want to go there - there was a line of rounds long long ago that were actually quite similar to todays short ultra mag stuff! They started life as 348 Winchester brass, which were then turned down to get rid of the rim, and an ejector groove on a rebated rim (Like the 284) was cut in. Then they were blown out to a 35 or 40 degree shoulder I believe, with a short neck and really min body taper. If I remember right there were samples of this puppy from 6mm to 458. THAT is wildcatting! They were marketed pretty extensively by Roy Gradle as the Gradle Express cartridge line. The 7mm was likely most popular.
To this day there is crap written about the 40 caliber rounds on the 06 case by guys who have never seen let alone shot one! And I know that old prejudice against the 400 Whelen and others named thus, are why guys chose to emphasize the .411 in the name of current wildcatts. To create an illusion of difference even where none really exists. ALL of these nominally 41 cal cartridges perform close enough to the same. The "biggest" of the bunch like the 411 Hawk, and others similar are maybe a tad faster, but sure heck not enough to matter. For me I want safety and reliability. I can assure you that tales of the case pushing forward under firing pin blow without firing are very real - Hell I have done that with the 35 Whelen! Once ANY of these 400 cases are fire formed, they will fire and perform with complete reliability as long as the shoulder is not pushed back.
I posted that pic above, I think that is either a 411 Hawk and an 06 or a 411 JKS (They are for all purposes the same) and an 06. I am tying to find a sample of the 411/350, and another wildcat I chambered once for a customer; the 416 PAB (I believe he told me that stood for perfect american belted- ) If you really think you are a wildcatter . . . then this is the sort of round that will test whether you have jumped all the way off the bridge or not! He used basic 06 brass (This was long enough ago that his brass was basic 06 from B.E.L.L) then he turned a relief groove and swaged on a belt. So in essence he now had a dead straight 240 Weatherby case. This was run through a FL die to impart a bit of taper with the inside finishing out to hold 416 bullets. This was back in the late 80's when the big 416 renaissance took place. You are really starting to get there in the wildcat arena with a round like this! BUT if you really want to go there - there was a line of rounds long long ago that were actually quite similar to todays short ultra mag stuff! They started life as 348 Winchester brass, which were then turned down to get rid of the rim, and an ejector groove on a rebated rim (Like the 284) was cut in. Then they were blown out to a 35 or 40 degree shoulder I believe, with a short neck and really min body taper. If I remember right there were samples of this puppy from 6mm to 458. THAT is wildcatting! They were marketed pretty extensively by Roy Gradle as the Gradle Express cartridge line. The 7mm was likely most popular.