Post by SEDstar on Apr 1, 2017 10:54:55 GMT -5
number one, and perhaps the most important? welcome! bluedot is a long time blinky star member. so, you must be pretty darn cool.
number two? any new guy thats "actually concerned" about replicating EXACT recipes, exact weights, and exact lengths to the nearest "thou"? I'm impressed... thats the exact SORT of dedication to measurements and accuracy that is a great recipe for success reloading. (with "epic failure" being defined as "now missing body parts", some of which body parts may or may not be needed to keep you alive? we can define "success" as pretty much the complete opposite.)
number three? the great irony. a new reloader NEEDS to "prove themselves" with the early almost fanatical devotion to those recipes and measurements... to show they are for lack of a better word? either "worthy" of reloading, or, somethng like that. But i promised some great "irony" didnt I? here it is... look behinmd the curtain...
=====================================
like most guys with grey hairs doing this? i have been doing this way longer than 10 years, i'm not sure i hit 20 years yet, but, gettign there. I have a small library of manuals. multiples of some favorites? different editions many years apart to see the data change.
powder charge? once i consult several commercial reloading manuals, i can come up with a RANGE of "min" and "max" values for a powder under a specific or "same weight" projectile. They are all different. They are all "valid". My "min" and "max" exact powder charge?? are more like a "minimum MIN" and a "maximum MAX" once i put them all together, like "overlaying" with a couple of overhead transparency projector sheets.
commercial reloading data? really varies a bit. my MAIN criteria? is to stop before i am beginning to "batter" or "beat on" the gun and frame and mechanicals. in a 380, 9mm or other blowback design i dont want to overcome the main recoil spring, and allow the slide to "batter" the frame... because when you consider what would happen if the slide happened to shear off and would now come straight back? well, its in a direct line with your eye and brain...
OAL means very little to me, as from what i might see in a manual.
in a REVOLVER? i am going to do a ROLL CRIMP. I mechanically need a "place" on the projectile to do this... and thats where i am going to perform this crimp. I'm really not concerned azbout anything in the manual doing this, i need a roll crimp, and a heavy one... i need a "place" to do it? its going to sort of "set" my own OAL for me. Like multiple people said? if nothing is poking out the ends of the cylinder? yeah, great OAL in a revolver. if they dont dislodge and lock up? well, congratulations... you hit "minimum roll crimp" reguired to keep the gun firing.
i am shooting for (pun intended, lol) in the revolvers case? the heaviest roll crimp i can set with my dies and apply, without deforming the brass and bulging it.
=========================================================
in auto pistols like 380 or 9mm parabellum? thats a "taper crimp" and there i want the minimum amount that will allow me to not be able to "shorten" my TENTATIVE OAL i picked first? by the scientific test of "pushing really really hand with hand pressure on the kitchen counter" and not getting a shorter reading on my caliper, LMAO.
one really old LEE or SPEER manual? gave "magic lengths", generic ones, for 9mm and 380? and... i more or less use THOSE "oal's" and all of a sudden, ignoring "modern" standards and going by the old time recommended "magic OALs"?? suddenly eliminated 90 percent of feeding issues i was having.
or? i might try similar weight and profile commercial ammo? and set my length to that, and try it... again? sorry to be so unscientific.
===================================================
in rifle? i MIGHT use the length of the magazine as the "OAL", or, far more likely? i am going to load far into the lands... and tap out with a rod, and THAT is my "max OAL"... and i am going to work back off of that max figure, which is max only in MY GUN for ME... and only single feeding by hand. (i have magazines on new bought guns? which you could fill up with cement for all i use them)
here? because i am used to this, i know i want to be maybe 30 thou off the lands... and will try back and forth to settle "optimum OAL" for that rifle and that load, only after settling on powder charge and bullet combo.
my "minimum MIN" and my "maximum MAX" powder charge? have more to do with watching for weird primer looks, and watching out for any sign of "bolt lift" pressure change. even then? i tread very carefully moving up past any one manuals "max" even though i have different manuals that allow me another grain or so...
========================================================
i was initially "concerned" when the OAL in a loading manual gave me feeding fits in my 9mm high power? the "old time" magic OALs more or less cured this.
==============================================
i like to keep this information "behind the curtain" from newbies? until they understand the importance of not "whipping up a recipe"... lest they get the wrong idea about old experienced hands playing around with what the manuals say...
being "here" suddenly gives a new guy access to "the vulcan mind meld" and accurate safe procedures to get off of "beginner reloading" thats trustworthy and useful.
=================================
i "like" revolvers more, for their reliability feeding, lol. particularly when carrying... i trust a revolver with my life if it comes to it.
i'm not an action hero, and i'm not a cop who might be faced with the dreaded "rabid biker gang scenario"? so... i dont feel "undergunned" carrying a 5 shot 38 or 357. i did start "dating" then "going steady" with my beat up 45 acp... for a couple years, so... i'm not against autos or anything...
========================================
welcome to behind the curtain. the exact OAL in a certain reloading manual? is far less critical than what your gun wants to feed reliably in 380 or 9mm...
the fact some MANUAL "declares" x.y grains of "purple dot" powder to be "max" or "min" with a specific projectile? really wont comfort your HEIRS too much, if your slightly used like-new 9-mm "thunder ranch custom" you bought?? and you dont know the prior owner installed "bunny fart recoil spring" so he could shoot rapidly to practice some kind of competition while feeding reliably.
your "conservative loads" could have been battering the ever loving sh!t of the slide into the frame? and when it fails one day and sends the slide thru your eyeball and out the back of your head? well... thats what spending time behind the curtain is for... "benefit of experience, without having to be lucky up front to gain that experience"
number two? any new guy thats "actually concerned" about replicating EXACT recipes, exact weights, and exact lengths to the nearest "thou"? I'm impressed... thats the exact SORT of dedication to measurements and accuracy that is a great recipe for success reloading. (with "epic failure" being defined as "now missing body parts", some of which body parts may or may not be needed to keep you alive? we can define "success" as pretty much the complete opposite.)
number three? the great irony. a new reloader NEEDS to "prove themselves" with the early almost fanatical devotion to those recipes and measurements... to show they are for lack of a better word? either "worthy" of reloading, or, somethng like that. But i promised some great "irony" didnt I? here it is... look behinmd the curtain...
=====================================
like most guys with grey hairs doing this? i have been doing this way longer than 10 years, i'm not sure i hit 20 years yet, but, gettign there. I have a small library of manuals. multiples of some favorites? different editions many years apart to see the data change.
powder charge? once i consult several commercial reloading manuals, i can come up with a RANGE of "min" and "max" values for a powder under a specific or "same weight" projectile. They are all different. They are all "valid". My "min" and "max" exact powder charge?? are more like a "minimum MIN" and a "maximum MAX" once i put them all together, like "overlaying" with a couple of overhead transparency projector sheets.
commercial reloading data? really varies a bit. my MAIN criteria? is to stop before i am beginning to "batter" or "beat on" the gun and frame and mechanicals. in a 380, 9mm or other blowback design i dont want to overcome the main recoil spring, and allow the slide to "batter" the frame... because when you consider what would happen if the slide happened to shear off and would now come straight back? well, its in a direct line with your eye and brain...
OAL means very little to me, as from what i might see in a manual.
in a REVOLVER? i am going to do a ROLL CRIMP. I mechanically need a "place" on the projectile to do this... and thats where i am going to perform this crimp. I'm really not concerned azbout anything in the manual doing this, i need a roll crimp, and a heavy one... i need a "place" to do it? its going to sort of "set" my own OAL for me. Like multiple people said? if nothing is poking out the ends of the cylinder? yeah, great OAL in a revolver. if they dont dislodge and lock up? well, congratulations... you hit "minimum roll crimp" reguired to keep the gun firing.
i am shooting for (pun intended, lol) in the revolvers case? the heaviest roll crimp i can set with my dies and apply, without deforming the brass and bulging it.
=========================================================
in auto pistols like 380 or 9mm parabellum? thats a "taper crimp" and there i want the minimum amount that will allow me to not be able to "shorten" my TENTATIVE OAL i picked first? by the scientific test of "pushing really really hand with hand pressure on the kitchen counter" and not getting a shorter reading on my caliper, LMAO.
one really old LEE or SPEER manual? gave "magic lengths", generic ones, for 9mm and 380? and... i more or less use THOSE "oal's" and all of a sudden, ignoring "modern" standards and going by the old time recommended "magic OALs"?? suddenly eliminated 90 percent of feeding issues i was having.
or? i might try similar weight and profile commercial ammo? and set my length to that, and try it... again? sorry to be so unscientific.
===================================================
in rifle? i MIGHT use the length of the magazine as the "OAL", or, far more likely? i am going to load far into the lands... and tap out with a rod, and THAT is my "max OAL"... and i am going to work back off of that max figure, which is max only in MY GUN for ME... and only single feeding by hand. (i have magazines on new bought guns? which you could fill up with cement for all i use them)
here? because i am used to this, i know i want to be maybe 30 thou off the lands... and will try back and forth to settle "optimum OAL" for that rifle and that load, only after settling on powder charge and bullet combo.
my "minimum MIN" and my "maximum MAX" powder charge? have more to do with watching for weird primer looks, and watching out for any sign of "bolt lift" pressure change. even then? i tread very carefully moving up past any one manuals "max" even though i have different manuals that allow me another grain or so...
========================================================
i was initially "concerned" when the OAL in a loading manual gave me feeding fits in my 9mm high power? the "old time" magic OALs more or less cured this.
==============================================
i like to keep this information "behind the curtain" from newbies? until they understand the importance of not "whipping up a recipe"... lest they get the wrong idea about old experienced hands playing around with what the manuals say...
being "here" suddenly gives a new guy access to "the vulcan mind meld" and accurate safe procedures to get off of "beginner reloading" thats trustworthy and useful.
=================================
i "like" revolvers more, for their reliability feeding, lol. particularly when carrying... i trust a revolver with my life if it comes to it.
i'm not an action hero, and i'm not a cop who might be faced with the dreaded "rabid biker gang scenario"? so... i dont feel "undergunned" carrying a 5 shot 38 or 357. i did start "dating" then "going steady" with my beat up 45 acp... for a couple years, so... i'm not against autos or anything...
========================================
welcome to behind the curtain. the exact OAL in a certain reloading manual? is far less critical than what your gun wants to feed reliably in 380 or 9mm...
the fact some MANUAL "declares" x.y grains of "purple dot" powder to be "max" or "min" with a specific projectile? really wont comfort your HEIRS too much, if your slightly used like-new 9-mm "thunder ranch custom" you bought?? and you dont know the prior owner installed "bunny fart recoil spring" so he could shoot rapidly to practice some kind of competition while feeding reliably.
your "conservative loads" could have been battering the ever loving sh!t of the slide into the frame? and when it fails one day and sends the slide thru your eyeball and out the back of your head? well... thats what spending time behind the curtain is for... "benefit of experience, without having to be lucky up front to gain that experience"